INFAMOUS: Darlie Routier Part 2

[00:00] Hi, Crime Junkies. It's Britt, and I have big news. One of my favorite seasonal shows, CounterClock, is back with a brand new season, and it is wild. Host Delia D'Ambra is digging into the 2008 Lane Bryant murders. I mean, this isn't just a recap. It is a reinvestigation. She's talking to law enforcement, people from the community, even sources who have never spoken publicly until now. And you know I love a show that asks all the questions. Listen to CounterClock Season 8 now wherever you get your podcasts. [00:30] Hi, Crime Junkies. I'm Ashley Flowers. And I'm Britt. And we are back to tell you the second part to our story about Darlie Routier and her two murdered sons, Devin and Damon. So if you're just listening to this now and you haven't heard part one, you're going to be totally lost. Go back, listen to it, and come back to this episode. We left off last episode with Darlie being convicted of the murders and sentenced to death row. Police were sure Darlie was responsible from early on in [01:00] evidence proved she was lying. She wrote an incriminating note in her diary, basically confessing to it. And it was the videotape of her spring silly string on her son's graves that the jury watched 11 times before deciding no mother would act that way and convicting her. But there's always two sides to a story. And Darley's version of all these supposedly incriminating things are

[01:30] innocent woman is currently sitting on death row. [01:34] Music. [02:06] When Darley was sentenced to death in February of 1997, she couldn't believe what was happening. Her family couldn't believe it either. It felt like one tragedy right after another, right after another. They lost Devin and Damon, and now they stood to lose Darley too. And everyone in her life was convinced of one thing. She was innocent and had been wrongly accused. They said to anyone who would listen that the prosecution painted a one-sided picture, [02:35] know. They went on every news outlet, every daytime talk show that they could and fought with the hosts, with some of the jurors that even convicted Darley. They tried to point out that this was a witch hunt and they said anyone who looked critically at the state's case would see that it was clear someone else was responsible and Darley was sitting in prison for a crime she did not commit. The biggest argument the family had against Darley's accusers were her injuries. The slash on

[03:05] wound on her arm, right? [03:06] Right. But didn't the police say that it was pretty superficial? Like that was kind of the base of the argument? Right. They said that she inflicted those wounds on herself standing over the kitchen sink. Now, full disclosure here, I can't explain the blood over the kitchen sink. I think at one point Darlie applied a towel to her neck. Maybe she was near the sink when it happened. I don't know. And I don't want to get too hung up on that part because what I want to talk about were the extent of the injuries that the prosecution called, you know, quote, [03:36] inflicted and the number of injuries that they seem to never even address. So first, the cut to her arm was to the bone. Like that does not seem superficial to me, but to be fair, it wasn't life threatening. So... [03:51] Let's say calling it superficial was just someone's interpretation. Yeah. [03:55] Let's talk about her neck. The cut on her neck came two millimeters from cutting her carotid artery, which would have killed her. Two millimeters. Yeah, that's not a lot. I think the big question last episode that the police raised was like, well, why stab the boys straight through and just cut her neck? The wound very well should have killed her. And it should be noted that the knife was stopped, not because someone stopped cutting, but by a necklace that she was wearing. [04:25] actually surgically remove the necklace from her neck. Like to me, there is no way if it was self-inflicted that she would have known to stop two millimeters away, right? Yeah, that seems incredibly unlikely. It does. And just to put this in perspective for people, like two millimeters sounds really small, but I really had no concept for how small. And it was just by happenstance that I was watching this totally unrelated video on YouTube while I was like researching this case

[04:55] watching sometimes medical videos on YouTube. And so I was watching this one on microneedling with plasma. And it's basically like, it's called a vampire facial. It's this thing that people do to make them look younger, get rid of scarring or whatever, whatever. But what happens in this is a bunch of teeny tiny super needles like puncture your face all over. And the technician just moves this wand over. [05:17] all over the face, nose, cheeks, forehead, up and down, up and down, up and down, while these little needles just jab, jab, jab away. And the doctor on this video mentioned that these needles go up to two millimeters deep into the facial tissue. So two millimeters is so small that people are poking needles into their face for cosmetic purposes, and that's how close the knife was to killing Darlie. Okay, I'm with you on this one. I don't think she could have been able to cut herself that deep, [05:44] and known when and where to stop. But I kind of have another theory. [05:49] Just to keep playing devil's advocate. [05:51] Okay. What if she was trying to kill herself? Like, I keep going back to that note in her diary where she said she was so sorry for what she was about to do. [05:59] what if her plan was to kill the boys and then kill herself too? So we definitely need to talk more about that diary entry because like all of this, I think there's another side to it. But... [06:09] If this was a murder-suicide attempt, then here's what I don't get. Why call police? Why wake up Darren? None of that makes sense. She didn't hit her carotid artery, but she very well could have died from blood loss. I'm not buying it. Nothing about her neck wound looks self-inflicted to me.

[06:29] Here's the thing. We're talking about the stab wound in her arm. We're talking about her neck wound. It's more than just those two. Again, in court, that's all they talked about. [06:39] No one talked about all of her other injuries. And Britt, I made a document with just some of the pictures taken of Darlie in the hospital and then after she was released. And I got them from the fordarlieroutier.org site, which has many of the evidence photos and court documents for this case. And I'm going to put pictures and links to everything on our website if people listening want to follow along. But let me send this to you, and I want to go through some of the pictures of her injuries. Okay. [07:08] So… [07:09] Let's look at this first picture on the document I sent you. Okay. She's laying in her hospital bed. I mean, you can see she's got like nicks and cuts and scratches all over her arm. It's not just like one stab wound. You can see the stab wound has been stitched up. It's at the very top of her forearm. But underneath, there's all kinds of small marks as well. [07:31] If you go down to the second picture, that's a picture of her hand after she was released from the hospital. And you'll see there's like lacerations on her fingers. And what I had seen some experts say in the ABC documentary, The Last Defense, that I watched is those are consistent with defensive marks of somebody who's being attacked and trying to grab a knife.

[08:01] Thank you. [08:02] Like you were defending from a knife wound, right? [08:04] Yeah. Is there any consistency with it being like she was stabbing and her hand slipped off the grip and cut herself on the blade while stabbing the boys? You know, I don't know that. This is her left hand. So her non-dominant maybe? Yes, she was right handed. This is her non-dominant hand. To me, it doesn't make sense that it was slipping when she was stabbing the boys. The wound on her hand. [08:27] arm, the stab wound on her arm is on her right. So it, you know, maybe it slipped for her. So if you want to ignore this, we can. Okay. But scroll down even further. So the next picture is of her hands put out. And you can see the bruising on the top of her hands, which I... [08:44] cannot find an explanation for other than being in a struggle with someone, possibly. And if you scroll down even further... [08:53] The bruising on her arm. Oh my God. She has her arm held up and from her wrist to her armpit is this deep purple, blue, black bruise. [09:07] That I don't even know how you would self-inflict. Yeah, I mean, that's... [09:11] that's got to be consistent with someone, you know, really forcing you down onto a hard surface or something like that. [09:18] I don't even think you could throw yourself hard enough to make that happen. No. And here's the thing, too. And I don't know how you throw yourself hard enough against something and not wake up anyone else in the house. Again, Darren didn't wake up until she started calling his name. The little boys are just laying in the living room asleep. To that point, too, I guess you could look at that two ways. You could say how is no one waking up when she's struggling with somebody this severely. But if you keep scrolling, like she's got marks on both arms. She is bruising on both arms.

[09:48] over and super consistent. And experts have said that like if we go back to her wound that with the stab wound that hit bone, they said that that's super consistent with self-defense. Again, her right arm was her dominant arm. If someone was coming down at her. She would have lifted it up in front of her. Yeah. Yeah. If someone was coming down at her with a knife. [10:06] That's exactly what she would do. So I don't know personally how anyone can look at these images and see self-inflicted. They seem... [10:16] like someone got in a struggle, and if this was self-inflicted, it would seem like it would be super time-consuming. [10:23] Super elaborate. [10:25] It just doesn't make sense. [10:27] Okay, so if there was an attacker... [10:29] Can we go back to Darlie's diary entry? [10:31] You said it's not what we thought, right? Right. I guess, what else could it mean when she said, I'm so sorry for what I'm about to do? Well, again, like everything in this case, or so many things, is the prosecution, the police, they pick out the incriminating thing. And that's kind of what gets publicized over and over and over. But that was just one line from an entire entry. And the whole entry... [10:54] if you were to read like the whole paragraph, says, [11:15] This was not an apology for what she was planning to do to them. It was an apology for what she was thinking of doing to herself. Darlie was thinking about taking her own life. She had, I mentioned this briefly in our last episode, but she had been suffering from postpartum depression after having their third son, Drake. And she wrote a lot about her feelings in her diary. And the writing was just one month before the murder. She said she didn't go through with it. She wanted to be around her boys. She wanted to see them grow up.

[11:45] her diary made it seem like she was a threat to them. She was depressed sometimes and I don't think people really talk about how common postpartum depression is. Even now, like I've seen so many of my mom friends feel so alone until they start talking to one another and realize that it is so, so common. But if it's not talked about as much now in 2019, like [12:05] How were things in 1996? Right. [12:08] And let me tell you one of the times that I was most outraged in all of my research. Oh, no. So I was watching an interview on ABC and the prosecutor who was lead in Darlie's case was talking. And he was trying to make a point that Darlie was the exception to all the rules, that you can't look at her through a normal lens. He said, listen, I get this whole case isn't normal. Parents don't normally talk about killing their kids. [12:38] either his point being that she was talking about suicide so because of that she clearly is the one who killed her kids and I was appalled mothers are not superheroes they're not immune to human emotions and a mother who's suffering from something very natural and normal should not be put on trial for murdering her kids like I just couldn't believe he was saying that out loud and that he really meant it it is amazing [13:04] Absolutely outrageous. Like, my jaw is on the ground right now, and I am seething with anger. Again, I couldn't believe he wanted to be on tape saying something like that. Right. Like, think that, I guess. Sure. But you're being interviewed and broadcast to the world. Great. Perfect time to be especially terrible at being a human. And the problem is, like, I think he really believed it. And I think it's something...

[13:29] that he could get everyone else to believe at the time because of another case that happened just a couple years before the Routier boys were murdered. [13:40] You know the saying, knowledge is power? Well, it's a lot more than that. Knowledge can be growth, security, opportunity, and no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. That's why they offer over 200 online degree programs designed to help you reach your goals. Set yourself up for success or get ready to pivot into something new. No matter your program, you'll learn practical, career-focused skills you can use on the job. [14:10] From day one to graduation, you'll have friendly, knowledgeable people to help you with everything from applying and financial aid to tutoring and career development. At Southern New Hampshire University, knowledge can be life-changing. Get started at snhu.edu slash crimejunkie. That's snhu.edu slash crimejunkie. [14:32] One of the main reasons the police, the prosecution, and the public found it so easy to believe Darley would kill her own boys was because of a woman named Susan Smith. And this isn't just an assumption. According to ABC and CNN, in the early stages of the investigation, people were saying Darley was their Susan Smith. So who's Susan Smith?

[15:01] news. She had made claims to the police that a black man had hijacked her car with both of her kids inside and now the kids in the car were missing. And she did all sorts of press and played up being the grieving mother, begging for them to return the kids to her. And after nine days of this charade in the public, she ended up confessing to killing both of her kids by rolling [15:31] Public was outraged. And outrage is even an understatement for where she lived in South Carolina, especially because the entire public felt like they'd been had. Like thousands of people were searching, volunteering, and all along they were helping a woman who murdered her own babies. So just two years later, when Darley has a crazy story about an intruder coming into her home for the sole intention of killing two innocent kids and maybe her, people start talking right away. [16:01] right from the very beginning. [16:03] So her case was completely colored by this then? Absolutely. Everyone knew about Susan Smith. Everyone hated her. So... [16:11] Maybe if Darley's case would have happened in another time or if Susan Smith never committed her crimes at all, maybe people would have been more likely to believe that there really was an intruder. And on top of the fact that people hated Susan and that kind of translated over to Darley, the prosecution made a huge deal about how Darley bleached her hair and got breast implants. And they used that as proof. Of what?

[16:41] my research. And even in the last defense segment, they interviewed a juror who said, like, who goes out and spends $2,000 on breast implants? And I didn't like her because her clothes and jewelry were flashy and it's never like the kind of stuff I would buy. So she's pretty. And I don't know how what that has to do with killing your kids just because it's not how you act and you like you don't have breast implants and your hair isn't bleached. Like, what does that have to do with any of this? Like, this case was a full on character assassination. And the jury focused on the boobs [17:11] not the fact that all the parents in the neighborhood said that Darlie was a great mom and they would let their kids play at her house all the time and she loved her kids like all of that was gone. So the jury is already thinking all of this stuff so when they see the silly string video it's like every validation they need to hate her. But let me tell you what they didn't see. The police put [17:41] weird gray area. And no one's ever been convicted of doing anything wrong. Like the police all played the fifth. There was this big trial because there's, you know, maybe this like expectation of privacy by a grave site, whatever. But they had basically mic to the grave site and were taking video. And what they had that the news stations weren't there for was that before the Silly String Party, there was a two hour prayer vigil that was taped. The public never saw crying and

[18:11] All of this feels super raw, super real, and super normal. And none of that was ever played for the jury. All that they saw was the silly string. [18:21] So I fully get that there's a ton of factors surrounding this case that played into people's perception of Darlie. Right or wrong. Which... [18:28] By the way, most of them are wrong. Yeah. But... [18:31] Last episode, we talked a lot about the actual evidence as well. [18:35] It's not like they're just convicting her on her looks, the partial videotape of actions, or other people's bad actions. [18:42] But there was the knife that she said she had moved, but there was no evidence of. The glass over the bloody footprint. The knife inside the house that was used to cut the screen. And the whole fact that the window and area around it where this guy supposedly came in and out was completely undisturbed. Like, there is some physical evidence that is not adding up to her story, no matter how much she was a victim of this undue media scrutiny. There was. So let me give you what I've learned about that. [19:12] and new information has come to light about a lot of that stuff. So let's start with the knife and I'll be honest right off the top I can't explain why there was no bloody imprint of the knife on the floor where she said she picked it up in the utility room. If we're going to look at this evidence like with the assumption of innocence my best explanation which I do believe is plausible is that [19:32] the human memory can almost be worthless, especially in times of trauma. It very well could be that that part of her story... [19:40] She really does believe to be true, but she's maybe just misremembering. Like her brain is filling in a gap. Exactly. But what I know for sure, though, is that her talking about the knife on the 911 call to the operator isn't as sinister as the prosecution made it out to be. Or even the statement analysis blog made it out to be that we talked about last episode. They presented it like she's offering up this unsolicited information to the operator and trying to, like, scheme to cover her tracks.

[20:10] But let me play the entire part about the knife for you right now. [20:16] There's a knife, don't press anything. I already pressed that thing. Is anybody out there? I don't know. Okay, ma'am, listen, there's a police officer. Is your friend doing wrong? Yes, ma'am, it's really, really, really pleasing. I was getting here and I was getting mad. My God, please help. Okay, there's 82 out on Eagles. Huh? Yeah, I'm going to go. [20:46] There you go, my child. I'm sorry. I can't do that. [20:51] Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Why would they do this? [20:57] What do you say? Why would they do this? Okay. Okay, listen, ma'am. You need to let the officers in the front door, okay? What? Ma'am? No, God. You need to let the police officers in the front door. That's nice. I'm so mad. I already see that. [21:16] So you'll notice on the call that she doesn't just come out and make up excuses. No, you're right. Like, she's just responding to a prompt from the operator. Right. And it's not even like she does it right away. No, it's a full minute on the phone before she realizes the ramifications of what she had done instinctually. To me, that didn't sound like a woman setting the stage.

[21:46] who did this or why, and she's afraid the only piece of evidence that she might have is gone. Okay, so I'm willing to throw out [21:52] the 911 call and even like the whole unexplainability of the knife. But what about the glass over the bloody footprints? Well, Darlie's defense team points out that the scene was contaminated by first responders. When they were originally called, they were there to perform life-saving measures. So there was no caution for scene preservation. People were in and out. And they say it's very possible that one of the people on the scene may be like, [22:20] moved glass around with their feet or things got shuffled around. Okay, I guess. I know it's not the CSI moment everyone is hoping for, but like real cases in real life are so bad. [22:30] messy. But I might have some hard science to throw at you to convince you someone could very well have come in and out of that window. [22:40] So first, let's talk about the prosecution's claim that there wasn't any evidence someone had been in or out of that window because there was dust that was undisturbed and no footprints in the mulch. That was their big claim. Well, first, when I saw a picture of the windowsill in the documentary I watched, it's not what I pictured at all. Like, I could barely see this, quote, layer of dust that they said was undisturbed. And the mulch under the window isn't under the freaking window at all.

[23:10] a couple of feet away. So Darley's husband, Darren, even demonstrated for a news outlet how someone could easily step in and out of the window. And it's hard to explain because again, when I'm first hearing about this and reading about this, I imagine something kind of high up that you'd have to like grab onto, then like straddle your legs through. Yeah, me too. No, but that's not the case at all. It's like close to the ground and very big. So when Darren did [23:40] like ducked under, swung his body through, then brought the other leg through. And you can slide in and out without disturbing anything. So to me, the dust and the mulch not being disturbed is meaningless. So let's go to the fibers on the knife, because for me, this was what was the game changer. Like originally, I thought, listen, forget everything else. If the knife that cut the screen came from inside the house, why are we even talking about this case? This is open and shut. [24:10] from both ABC and CNN. So the first possibility is cross-contamination. When we talk about fibers being found on the knife, we're talking about itty-bitty microscopic little things that weigh almost nothing and therefore transfer very easily. So this guy, this expert named Charles Lynch, told ABC that when he got the butcher block to test the fibers, they had already been dusted for

[24:40] They could have been transferred there. The other theory came from CNN's Death Row documentary. And Darley's new attorney said that he got seven random fingerprint brushes tested. And four of them had the same chemical consistency and appearance as the fibers on the bread knife. So it might just be something in the brushes and totally not related to screens or any of this at all. Oh, my God. [25:10] weren't tested against anything else initially. It's like they tested them to see if they could be consistent with the screen. And when they got the answer that they wanted, they were like, okay, boys, we're done. Let's lock this lady up. [25:21] So while we can't exclude all of the evidence, I think if we look at it critically, which I hope anyone would do in a death penalty case, I at the very least have reasonable doubt. And that's before I tell you about the piece of evidence that I didn't even bring up in the first episode. Because if you're on the fence now, just wait. So... [25:42] In the home, amongst all the blood and the chaos and cut screen and the knives, there was also a couple of prints that couldn't be identified. They didn't match Darley. [25:52] They didn't match Darren. They looked like an adult. So they're thinking it's not the kids. But here's the crazy part. They never compared them to the kids' prints. Because at the time of the murders and the first trial, the medical examiner never even took print samples from the two boys. You're kidding. Isn't that some sort of protocol? It was, but they just never did it.

[26:22] did not belong to them either. But when the boys were buried, they were actually buried together holding hands. And so many years later, water had leaked into the casket. And by the time they got them out, there was like nothing usable that could be obtained. So now Darlie's team is forced to try and identify the print using DNA. And this print is infamously known as 85J. Like that's the evidence number. So you'll see it like pop up everywhere if you're researching this case. [26:52] years. [26:53] And DNA has been requested over and over and over. And it was finally granted to test this 85J fingerprint. But we're still waiting on the results. So is that all we have in the house to test against a possible intruder? Like just this one single fingerprint? Yeah, the evidence in the house is sparse. And that's what makes so many people believe that someone within the house had to have perpetrated the crime. Yeah. [27:21] But there was a big piece of evidence found outside of the house and not like right outside. We're talking 75 yards away that totally kind of shakes this case up. [27:33] In an alley next to a trash can and like right above a drainage opening was a single sock with blood on it. It was collected when police initially canvassed the neighborhood. And when they had it tested, it had both boys' blood on it. Okay, but what does it mean? Well, to me, it means that everything Darley has been saying is real. That someone else was in the house and that someone else ran out of the house.

[28:03] to someone else. Like, it could have been planted, right? Are you saying like planted by Darlie? Yeah. I mean, again, looking at this from the prosecution's perspective, [28:12] If she did it, [28:13] And we have this piece of evidence 75 yards away, something I know is connected to the scene because both victims' blood is on it. [28:21] Is it possible she put it there to help support her intruder theory? So that's actually what a lot of the non-Darley supporters say, that she was the one who put it there. But the why and the how don't really make sense to me. Like if she's planting something, why there? It's far enough away that it could have easily been missed. Somebody could have picked it up and threw it in the trash. It could have like gone down that sewer. Like if it got knocked off into the street, it could have like gone down the drainage ditch. Like if this is your only chance to get police to believe that someone else was in your house, [28:51] wouldn't you put it a little closer to the house, maybe in the middle of the street, not next to a trash can? I don't know. To me, it's a little like inconspicuous. [28:59] If this was a plant, I think she would have had to have put it closer to the house just for the timing purposes. So when the paramedics arrived, remember, Damon was still alive. And according to experts, his injuries would have only given him about eight to nine minutes to live. And we know that Darley was on the phone with 911 for almost a full six minutes. That's how long the call is. It's like five minutes and 44 seconds or something like that.

[29:29] Please. [29:29] Then in just three minutes, she would have had to have like taken the sock, put it in each of their bloods, ran 75 yards away, dropped the sock, run 75 yards back, inflict her own wounds, which remember isn't just two cuts. We have bruises. We have nicks. Then she gets on the phone with 911. Like I don't understand that. [29:47] how that would be physically possible. Yeah, the, like... [29:51] the physical elements of it are [29:54] explain it away immediately. To me... [29:57] There's a second person. I don't know who that second person is. I don't know how the second person fits in. I mean, you can go down a rabbit hole and say it's a second person that's in that house. You can say it's a complete stranger, an intruder. But I think if you're looking at the defense side of this, they're saying that someone else was in there. [30:27] didn't make it down there. So we know very little about this sock, but it's one of the items that Darley's appeal attorney is having retested. And when I was first researching this case and hearing about this sock over and over, I imagined that if it was from an intruder, like it was an actual sock that maybe they would have worn. But I've heard some rumblings online that some people want the sock tested for chloroform. What? Yeah. So this brings me to the strange part of this case [30:57] supported by a ton of really big outlets but I see stated as fact in like forums and YouTube videos including like the the victim's extended family has talked about this so there's this theory that sexual assault was part of the motive of this crime that maybe Darley was knocked unconscious with something like chloroform so that's where this like

[31:19] sock thing comes in. Maybe this person like had chloroform on a sock and that's why the sock was out. That's why I had blood on it, whatever. But basically she was knocked out before her boys were attacked. And that's why she didn't even wake up, even though she was a light sleeper. And I'm seeing in these same places that her underwear was missing and she thought the man took it. Okay. I feel like this is kind of coming from left field. That's exactly how I felt when I was researching this case, because if this is legit, I'm like, why are we not all talking about [31:49] Thank you. [31:49] Why was she tested for drugs? Was anything else tested for drugs? Can you even test for chloroform like around someone's face? Did they try? Was her underwear really missing? Do we have proof of that? Like so many questions. But I don't know, like maybe this at least makes a little more sense than just a stranger coming in to just murder. Maybe someone just saw her sleeping on the couch. Like if I remember correctly from the crime scene, like they did like these stagings. It wasn't the actual photos. But I think the boys were sleeping on the floor. [32:19] Maybe the person who came in didn't see that. Maybe the plan was just to attack her. Then they saw the boys. And that's when they decided to use the knife from inside the house. I'm not saying this like makes perfect sense. But this is the weird thing that if it's true, I just don't get like, where is the underwear? And does this explain why she slept through her son's being stabbed and her own throat being cut? Like, how do you not wake up from that? [32:41] I mean, yeah. And if her underwear are missing, like he could still have them or maybe they're down the drain where the sock was. It opens up like a lot more questions. It totally does. And if you're buying that someone other than Darley, you know, could put that sock there, who knows what evidence was disposed of? I mean, I guess at this point, I'm definitely buying into the fact that someone else was there. You know, it doesn't make sense for Darley to have put the sock there. The sock being there doesn't even make sense.

[33:11] a stranger to come in off the street to do this. So I disagree a little bit. Like, I feel like we've covered a number of cases now where someone completely unrelated to a victim perpetrates violence for no reason other than... [33:25] to perpetrate violence. And oftentimes there's no connection, no motive. Like obviously there's Israel keys. But I also, when I think about this case, I think about the Tommy Lynn Sells episode that we did in the fan club. Oh my God. Yeah. That's so close to this case. Yeah. So he, for everyone who's on the fan club, he snuck into a house, killed a kid he never knew. And this kid's mom was put in jail for it. So this stuff does happen. It is terrifying to think about it, [33:55] and being prepared on our show. [33:58] Now, [33:59] It does happen, but I'm not sure [34:03] There weren't more contributing factors in this case because there is still one more bombshell I haven't told you that may hold the key to answering questions. [34:14] all of our questions. [34:17] Summer's here, and whether you're traveling, shuttling kids to camp, or spending long days by the pool, staying healthy and on budget, is always top of mind. That's where GoodRx can help. GoodRx can help you save up to 80% on prescriptions for you and your family. [34:32] Even your pets, too. Just check GoodRx before every pharmacy run to find big savings on both brand name and generic medications. [34:38] I love seeing how many options they have to save. GoodRx is free and easy to use. Just search for your prescription on the website or app, compare prices, and get a free coupon to show your pharmacist. Use GoodRx to save at over 70,000 pharmacies nationwide, including Walmart, Walgreens, CVS, Publix, Kroger, and many more. GoodRx is not insurance, but it works whether you have insurance or not, and it could even beat your copay price. Save time and money at the pharmacy this summer. Go to GoodRx.com slash Crime Junkie.

[35:08] GoodRx.com slash Crime Junkie or download the free GoodRx app. [35:16] Years after Darley was convicted of murder and sentenced to death, an affidavit came out at the behest of Darley's appeal attorney. It was an affidavit signed by Darley's husband, Darren, and it said a couple of interesting new things. The first was that apparently Darley had brought up separation to him the night of June 5th. [35:38] investigators that they like kiss goodnight. Oh, please dream about me. Everything's hunky dory. So this is new, but this is not what everyone's focused on in the statement. Like I got a little hung up on it, but no one really dives super deep into that. The real revelation is that Darren admitted to committing insurance scams. So previously he had had someone steal a car so that he could collect insurance money. And apparently he had been talking to a couple of [36:08] He wanted someone to break in, steal a bunch of stuff. Then he would collect the insurance money, pick up the stuff later and basically share the profits with whoever committed this crime. I'm sorry, what? Yes. How has this not come up before? Well, apparently when Darley was first arrested, the lawyers that she was assigned were talking about bringing Darren up as an alternate suspect. Like Darley had a $250,000 life insurance policy on her.

[36:38] But Darren had found another lawyer who told him, listen, if you hire me, I won't bring you into any of this. And wouldn't you know it, that guy got hired right after that. That kind of seems like a conflict of interest. Yeah, legitimately, Darley's lawyer also repped Darren before. So I think it absolutely was a conflict of interest. And Darley didn't find out about Darren's insurance scam plan until many years after she'd already been on death row. So it's not even something she knew she could protect herself from. [37:09] Everything she has told people, and even Darren says, no, Darley had no idea about this. She said that she had no idea he was plotting this scam to, like, have somebody break into their home. So... [37:20] What did she say when she found out? She said that she felt betrayed. I don't know if it made her think that he could be involved or responsible. Like the two stayed married for a long time, all the way until 2011. And when they finally did divorce, Darren kind of gave a statement. He said, you know, we didn't divorce because I changed my mind about her innocence or I don't love her. I'll always love her. She's the mother of my children. But I just need to move on with my life. [37:46] Okay, I'm sorry. I, like, cannot shake what you just told me. Has anyone looked into this anymore? Like, was there someone he tried to hire? Who else even knew about this? Well, and a number of people knew about it. Even Darley's, like, stepdad, I think. But when he was asked about it, he was like, huh, I don't know why I never, like, thought to mention this before. Put two and two together and said, huh. I don't know how you don't think this is relevant, but what if this was a staged robbery gone bad? What if this was...

[38:13] more than a robbery for hire. Like Darren swears up and down that he never even got to the point of hiring someone specific. And he's like, if I had, I would have shared the names with police. Like I would want to give them somewhere to start. But I don't know. Maybe he's defending Darley so fiercely out of guilt for something he did. Or maybe he did nothing and he's just being a good husband. Again, like in Darley's case, you can look at Darren's actions through whatever lens you want to. All we can do is wait [38:43] solid to come back to hopefully give us answers in this case. Darley has appealed her case a couple of times. The first time it was on the basis of the transcripts. Like her original court reporter made something like 1,800 significant errors in the transcript. And we're not talking spelling mistakes or grammar, but she would record people's answers wrong. She would change statements, like very crazy stuff. And this would normally be something that would get a person a [39:13] But the reports were fixed and Darley's appeal was denied. She did not get a new trial based on this. So since 2008, her team has been focused on this like new physical evidence and trying to get this stuff tested. They want the fingerprint. They want the sock. There might be some other evidence I don't know about. The last report I could find was from 2018. And it just says we're still waiting for results while Darley sits on death row. [39:38] Now, there are whole websites devoted to her innocence, other groups devoted to making sure she stays in prison. This is one of those cases that gets more and more convoluted the deeper you dig. And all we can do is hope for justice for Devin and Damon, whatever that means. In 2007, Darley wrote a letter to those who support her. It can be found on the For Darley Retire website. And I'll read it to you now. It's from December 9th, 2007.

[40:07] It doesn't seem possible that it's been 11 and a half years since the nightmare began. I close my eyes and it seems just like yesterday the boys were racing outside to play with their friends, so innocent, so alive, so very precious. My mind plays back like an old home movie, first steps and birthday parties. I have so many memories, each more precious than the first. At times, they are my salvation and other times my undoing. Yet even when the pain is greatest, I force myself to feel it. It reminds me of what this is all about. [40:37] and deep a pain i'm not sure i could even comprehend had it not been forced upon me there have been times i've simply wanted to say no more to just give up it has been during these times that i have felt each of you holding me up i realize more and more each day that i'm not fighting this battle alone with each tiny step you are all holding me up through all the times of despair and frustration one of you has always been there to catch me when i fall [41:02] The injustice of this system has pierced my soul, yet each of you help me heal. [41:07] Your belief and support helps breathe life back into me when I feel like there's nothing left. [41:12] There's a song by Celine Dion entitled, I'm everything I am because you loved me. I have sang this song for my precious baby boys. Now I want each of you to listen to the words of the song. This is what your love and support has done for me. [41:25] To simply say thank you is not enough, and there really are no words to express the depth of my gratitude. I feel for each of you. I know that my boys are looking down from heaven with the same love and attitude for each of you. Through this fight, they will never be forgotten. I hope you believe in angels like I do and realize each of you have two of the most precious angels watching over you as well. With love and prayers, amen.

[41:49] Darlie Routier. [41:51] If you want to dive deep into this rabbit hole, go check out our sources for this episode on the website CrimeJunkiePodcast.com. And let us know what you think when you come out the other end. [42:21] and be sure to follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode. [42:44] So [42:45] *music* [42:47] you [42:49] *music* [42:52] Crime Junkie is an AudioChuck production. So what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve? [43:01] Okay, crime junkies, you know I absolutely love a twist and a turn, especially when it comes to people who turn out to be someone they're not. That's why I have been obsessed with the podcast Chameleon. Every Thursday, host Josh Dean deep dives into a scam so bizarre, it will leave you wondering, how did they get away with that?

[43:19] It is truly one of my favorite podcasts right now and I've been listening for years. [43:23] I think you'll love it too. [43:24] Listen to Chameleon wherever you get your podcasts.