Taxing Cory Booker's Patience

[00:00] There's a new book that I think is particularly timely. It's called Control, Why Big Giving Falls Short. Author Glenn Galich offers a rare insider view exposing why billionaires and millionaire donors move so slowly while communities battle urgent crises. In Control, Why Big Giving Falls Short, Galich reveals how our philanthropic system and culture encourage excessive donor control and keep over two trillion from reaching communities. By prioritizing wealthy donor interests, power and control, the system doesn't simply slow social progress, it structurally [00:30] a really interesting deep dive into the world of big philanthropy, which I think we think is a sort of unadulterated good. But actually, these billionaire donors, they have their own motives. They have their own reasons for doing things. They can distort the way philanthropic giving works. They can distort public policy. They can control the capital allocation and decision making. So it's really interesting and worth better understanding how this kind of extreme wealth helps shape our society and then also how we can fix it. It's a great book to read. [01:00] by Glenn Gallage from your favorite indie bookstore. That's Control, Why Big Giving Falls Short. Out now. [01:06] I never realized my skills could earn extra income until I joined Airtasker. Now I book tasks like setting up a home office or walking poodles. I name my price and get paid securely. Go to Airtasker.com or download the app. [01:19] Air Tasker. Get anything done. Out here, if you're doing nothing, you're doing everything right. Though on a cruise with Norwegian, even if you're doing nothing, you're still basking in the warm sun, enjoying the peaceful ocean waves. You're breathing. Don't forget about breathing. Definitely need to be breathing.

[01:36] So you get to do nothing, or everything, but you still need to be breathing. [01:39] It's like, [01:40] Really important. Experience the difference with cruises to Alaska, the Caribbean, and Europe. Norwegian Cruise Line. It's different out here. Visit ncl.com, call your travel advisor or 1-888-NCL-CRUWS. Norwegian Cruise Line ships registered with Bahamas and USA. [02:12] Hey everybody, welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Lovett. I just wrapped a conversation with Senator Cory Booker. We talked for about an hour. They only gave us 30, but I pushed [02:22] We talked about [02:23] the war in Iran. We talked about AIPAC and support for Israel. We also spent a lot of time on his tax proposal, his big idea to raise the standard deduction to $75,000, which would provide a lot of tax relief for middle class families, but would also mean most Americans don't pay income tax and what it means to have a Democratic Party that is advocating against taxes for the middle class, while Republicans are advocating against taxes for the wealthy and what it says about our politics. [02:53] this conversation with Cory Booker. I'm really glad he gave us the time, and I think you'll like it too. So take a listen.

[03:07] Senator Cory Booker, welcome back to the pod. It's really great to be back on. So before we started, we were just talking about this. You recently got married. [03:14] I'm getting married in a couple of months. You have an age gap. [03:17] Any challenges in marrying someone younger than you? Well, younger and cooler than me. That sort of goes without saying. I've talked to you before. Yes, much so. No, I think every marriage is unique. Every relationship is unique. But from the second I met her, I always say that sort of like the Wizard of Oz, my life was in black and white. I didn't realize it. And then suddenly it just got to be Technicolor. But any... [03:42] Any like references? [03:44] She's in the room, by the way. We could pull her up. Is there any references he doesn't get? [03:49] To you? Yeah. Yeah? I think it's music. Yeah, music. Oh, I remember at our wedding, there was a song that, and now I'm going to embarrass myself because you're going to ask what the song is, but everybody rushed to the dance floor and started dancing. Mr. Nice Guy. [04:03] I just didn't know the song. And it was just a weird moment. And you're like, play Camp Town Races. [04:09] Something I could really jig to. Yes. I do get jiggy with it, but that's a different generation, too. Yeah, I think it's my corny dad jokes. But yeah, that's a universal problem in my life. My staff allows me one dad joke a day. Yeah. I feel like you were old when you were young. I have been told that I am an older soul. [04:33] friend. I don't drink. You know, I was always like the designated driver. And yeah. So I think I was always the adult in the room.

[04:40] Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. I wonder if that'll change. I wonder if I'll have like a... [04:46] an immature phase where you're sort of unmanageable at some point. I think that maybe towards the very end. Who, who, who knows? We see this with Republican senators when they get ready to retire, all of a sudden they become constructively cantankerous. I will tell you though, I'm psyched to hear this, this news because it really is what life's greatest blessing and the most important choice I think you make in your life in terms of your own happiness and joy. And I think that you are going to find a deeper and richer life as, [05:16] as a married man. I hope so. I think that's true. So we are recording this on Thursday afternoon, shortly after Fox reported and Trump confirmed that Pam Bondi, [05:26] is out as attorney general. Speaking of... [05:29] of relationships that didn't work out. Replacing her with Deputy AG Todd Blanch in the interim, what is your reaction to the news? I mean, this is an agency, you know, they renamed the Department of... [05:41] defense to the Department of War. They should rename this to the Department of Injustice. Got him. It is... [05:48] It is an agency that is doing such destructive things to our well-being and our safety. What I mean by that is they're trashing the Constitution, investigating the Fed chair, investigating senators and congresspeople. They're approving mergers. They used to give a lot more substantive analysis. Now they're letting this mass corporate concentration. They've moved out FBI agents who are focused on our national security, our voting security and more to do immigration enforcement.

[06:18] horrific things. And so who's at the head of it? The question is, are we ever going to see Donald Trump put somebody in place that understands that that's not his personal group of lawyers to pursue his vendettas and agendas and instead to actually pursue justice? And I don't think we'll get that ever out of this president. It creates a tension. I know you're on the Judiciary Committee, so this will come before your committee in that having someone as incompetent as, say, Christine Noem in charge [06:48] And if what Trump wants is a more competent, less in-your-face president, [06:54] bombastic and kind of ridiculous figure as Pam Bondi, [07:01] doesn't that almost help him achieve his ends of politicizing the department? [07:07] I... [07:08] And I'm not sure. Who knows who's going to be up front on us. I just... [07:13] For me, this is one of the darker, more dangerous corners of the Trump administration that often doesn't get the kind of attention it should. I know people who have been careerists that have left that office when they start saying we're going to not investigate the kind of anti-Muslim, anti-Semitic, anti-attacks on minority. No, we're going to investigate attacks on Christianity and attacks on Christians. [07:43] against white people, the kind of things that they're doing from that department that undermine a lot of the urgencies we have, including foreign entities trying to undermine our local elections. It's just a very, very dangerous thing. And the characteristics of who's there, as long as they're submitting to Donald Trump's will and direction, we have a very cancerous problem that is going to affect Americans more than they realize.

[08:12] Do any of your Republican colleagues share... [08:15] any of these concerns? Is this confirmation process going to be any kind of opportunity for [08:20] uh... [08:21] a look at the ways in which the department has looked at this? I was pleasantly surprised to see like Tom Tellis, for example, go after Kristi Noem telling the truth. I just don't know if that's going to be the case for whomever he puts up. I just don't know the name yet. There has been to seem to be a little appetite for checking and balancing and providing accountability and oversight to the Department of Justice. Remember, this is not just [08:51] serving in agencies underneath the attorney general that are doing really, really bad things. The pardon attorney, for example, is there. And here's a president that has been just wholesale pardoning people who pay him or pay his friends and then turn around, as we've seen in some cases, some of the biggest frosters and then invest in his companies or help him advance his crypto schemes. So this is and they've gotten rid of all the safeguards. [09:21] generals and the like. So again, this is a changing around the desk chairs on a ship that is sinking, hopefully. But I do not expect any kind of real change, as long as people are going to continue to give up their patriotism for their personal loyalty to Donald Trump. [09:41] So [09:41] So last night, Trump...

[09:43] address the country on Iran. [09:46] There are a lot of... [09:49] Varying stories of what he was going to use the time to do. He ended up not doing very much at all to reiterated the policy, which is the war is over and we're continuing to fight the war. What was your reaction to the speech? And what? [10:04] What do you view as your job [10:07] in [10:09] the Senate to try to check what Trump is doing. [10:13] More than a month into the biggest military buildup since the war in Afghanistan, this unilaterally declared war by Donald Trump, and now he's coming to the American people. [10:23] The first time he has actually made statements. Now he's made tons of statements, but he's contradicted himself multiple times about why we got in there. And he's changed the story multiple times from unconditional surrender. All the things he wanted as an off-ramp, he continues to change them. Now he's in crisis. He's broken what Colin Powell would say, the pottery barn rule. If you break it, you buy it or you fix it. [10:53] doing this, we would not be in the worst global oil shock ever. He's making pronouncements last night that he's just going to walk away. Yeah, I broke it. You fix it. [11:02] Yeah, exactly. And so you add to that the cost to American people. [11:11] American lives lost hundreds and hundreds of people, soldiers injured, tens of billions of dollars. And then he has the flagrant.

[11:22] um, [11:24] morally bankrupt statement of saying, oh, we can't afford Medicare and Medicaid. This is his speech last night, that I'm spending tens of billions of dollars, but we can't afford affordable childcare in America, which other competitive nations have realized we have a national urgency to provide the best for our children, to provide healthcare for our people. He's saying we can't afford that, the man that cut a trillion dollars out of Medicaid. And yet he comes up with our resources, our treasure to go to this war. [11:54] What I get very upset about in the Senate is, number one, all of his enablers – [12:00] who know this is wrong. [12:02] who would have never allowed any president to go this far into a war without having an open hearing. [12:08] Remember, this is a Congress that is utterly practicing some advanced form of yoga where they're bending over backwards to supplicate themselves and do Donald Trump's will. They do not want open hearings. They do not want to check and balance him, ask questions, no accountability, no oversight. And those enablers to me, and this is enablers in the Justice Department, enablers in Congress, all the people who are enabling this man to do what he is doing and the harms he's doing offend me worse than even Donald Trump does. [12:38] And so what should the Senate be doing? Number one, we shouldn't be doing business as usual. And Democrats in the Senate, and this is why I'm happy to have joined with a small group of Democratic senators, should do everything we can, every lever we can to force them to focus on the outrages of this war that's wildly unpopular with the American public.

[13:08] Senate just continue to pretend like there's not this major military operation that is a sink for American blood and treasure right now and force them to have this conversation. But it has to be matched by growing outrage in the public. And I'm seeing a lot more of that. But this is a president that needs to be checked and balanced. [13:38] fighting back because his standard now that he's creating in America, think about this standard now. Any president at any time could spend 40, 50 billion dollars and go to war with any country and for a month not even come before the American people tell you why. And by the way, when we finish with Iran, he has told us [13:56] I want to take Cuba. He has told us that, hey, maybe I will take Greenland as well. This is a president, if he's not checked, is setting number one, a new standard that is dangerous and unconstitutional and against what the founders said. But even worse than that, is capable and liable of doing anything unless he's held to account. [14:26] that. [14:26] for the war in Iran. Is there any argument? [14:30] that [14:30] That would be anything other than retroactive approval for the conflict. [14:37] I would see it exactly as that. I would see it as, and again, rewarding a president who unilaterally declared war, which is contrary to the Constitution. I do not think – and they're going to try to pitch this as how could you vote against America having the pick-your-weapon system. Replenishing the weapons. Yeah, replenishing the weapons and so on. And so –

[15:02] For Donald Trump to say two to three weeks, which I think is... [15:06] Um, I, I do not see it ending in two or three weeks, but maybe they, uh, end combat operations there. It doesn't mean that the fallout of that is going to be, uh, is going to end. Um, it doesn't mean that he will have anyway secured fissile material for a nuclear weapon. It doesn't mean he will have achieved regime change, which he said, uh, with a more brutal regime. It doesn't mean they're going to stop killing their own citizens. Like he said, he horrifically that, that, that he said he was going to stop. [15:36] None of his long term goals will have been achieved. And now we're going to just say, that's fine. Let's put more money into the military to cover for your the bill, the tab you rang up. And this is why I think Congress. [15:53] is just dangerously broken right now if that's the exercise we're about to do or if they try to do that somehow through reconciliation. I actually was confused about it. Can they do it through reconciliation or would they need to pay for it? Technically, will the supplemental be a 60 vote? [16:09] or do you think they can figure out a way to make it part of a supplemental? Again, this is a Congress and a president that will change the rules. [16:18] What rule on that? They're redistricting in the middle of a term. What rules are they respecting? [16:25] So far, they have respected the parliamentarian. They've respected that distinction between the 50 vote threshold on budget bills and 60 votes and everything else. So far, they have. So far, they have.

[16:36] So far, they have. But, you know, there wasn't a raid on the Capitol until there was. There wasn't a president that did this kind of war effort in our entire history unilaterally until he did. [16:48] If there's anything that you and I should be confident of is that Donald Trump and his enabling Republicans are going to do things that have not been done before to further undermine our democracy and, frankly, the will and the interests of the American people. [17:12] Pod Save America is brought to you by Wild Alaskan Company. Wild Alaskan Company is the best way to get wild-caught, perfectly portioned, nutrient-dense seafood delivered directly to your door. Trust us, you haven't tased fish this good. [17:23] I love getting Wild Alaskan Company. You can choose the fish you get, and then it's ready to go. You don't have to go to the store. You don't have to have a bag of fish sitting in your car seat. You don't have to worry about when you're at the grocery store, and you're like, ugh, where do I put the chicken? Where do I put the fish? It's touching stuff I'm going to eat raw, freaking out about the bag. I'm freaking out about how long the drive is. Instead, the fish comes to your house. You put it in the fridge, and the next day, boom. [17:45] Right before you go to bed, you put the fish in the fridge, then you got fish. Love fish. The Alaska Company. [17:51] How have I been cooking it? With heat on the stove. [17:54] Getting it nice and hot so it's cooked through. [17:57] I don't believe in ceviche. [17:59] Cooking it in lemon, that's stupid. [18:01] Wild Alaskans is 100% wild caught, never farmed. This means there are no antibiotics, GMOs, or additives. Just clean, real fish that support healthy oceans and fishing communities. Their fish is frozen off the boat to lock in taste, texture, and nutrients like omega-3s. Wild caught from Alaska. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices. And your membership delivers flexible shipments, export tips, and truly feel-good seafood. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan Company will give you a full refund. No questions asked. No risk. Just high-quality seafood. Not all fish is the same.

[18:30] Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com slash crooked. [18:34] For $35 off your first box of premium wild-caught seafood, that's wildalaskan.com slash crooked for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan Company for sponsoring this episode. [18:47] Posse of America is brought to you by Stamps.com. It's staggering that to this very day, many small business owners are still making post office runs or are stuck with expensive postage meter leases. It's 2026, enough. Mail and ship when you want, how you want with Stamps.com. With Stamps.com, you can send from your computer or phone 24-7. There's no long lines, no low supplies. It's open anytime. Print postage on demand and get up to 90% off carrier rates like FedEx, UPS, and USPS. Schedule carrier pickups right from your door [19:17] and get carrier-compliant labels every time. No errors, no rejected mail, no wasted trips. It's perfect for your business. Send certified mail, get document tracking, a confirmed delivery, and analytics to make sure you know exactly what you've sent and spent. [19:31] For almost 30 years, millions of customers have relied on Stamps.com to make mailing and shipping faster and so simple. We've been using Stamps.com here at Crooked Media since the very beginning. That's right. It made our jobs much easier. I don't understand why anyone would go wait in line at the post office or to buy stamps. You can save time. You save money. You don't have to leave your home. You don't have to leave your office. Pens aren't attached to the walls. Why wouldn't you do it? Right now, you can try Stamps.com risk-free for 60 days.

[20:01] to get 60 days risk-free. 60 days gives you plenty of time to see exactly how much time and money you're saving on every shipment. That's stamps.com, code PSA, stamps.com, code PSA. [20:13] So, as you've been debating this war in Iran, part of it has been the U.S. relationship with Israel. There has been a real turn against AIPAC. [20:24] uh, [20:25] AIPAC in terms of what it does to fund Democrats, also the ways in which it runs sort of ads in an underhanded way to attack candidates it doesn't like. More broadly, support for Israel has been dropping among Democrats given Israel's conduct of the war in Gaza. What do you say to people, especially young people, who... [20:45] believe Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, that Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal, and that if Democrats can't say that plainly, that tells them that Democrats don't share their moral values. [20:58] Well, my focus should be for everybody in that region is ending what has been [21:03] this horrific decades of conflict in that region that has taken lives in both places. And, and, [21:08] pitting this group, us versus them, [21:11] There's a simple reality I keep telling people over and over again. We will never be able to achieve justice and independence for Palestinians without Israeli security, and there'll never be Israeli security. [21:22] until there's justice and independence for Palestinians. [21:25] And so the politics of this should not drive us as much as the moral urgency, which is to bring this conflict to an end.

[21:33] And it's a conflict that unfortunately because of Entenyahoo, who is – [21:38] In the same category as Trump, but worse. [21:41] And what's going on, not just in Gaza right now, but what's going on in the West Bank, which is why I'm leading Democrats on trying to sanction people who are committing these atrocities in the West Bank. [21:54] is we have to be clear that in that region, we have a decades-long conflict, and we, as America, should be playing a positive role into bringing it to an end. [22:05] Thank you. [22:05] I've heard you give a version of this answer before, and you've been pressed on this and say, like you, you don't want to call Benjamin Netanyahu, say a war criminal. Uh, [22:13] What happens if you do? [22:15] What changes by just saying, I believe Benjamin Netanyahu is a war criminal and a... [22:22] That signals what our moral parameters are for the kind of leadership in Israel we view as acceptable. This is not a political test for me. Benjamin Netanyahu is... [22:34] a [22:34] horrible person [22:36] who enabled... [22:38] October 7th and has failed to take accountability. Remember, he knew about the Qataris funding this horrific terrorist organization, Hamas. He knew about that. He allowed that funding to continue, has failed in that sense. He has within his own administration people that are committing atrocities right now in the West Bank, as we've seen over these last few weeks. I have no problem calling him out. [23:00] And saying that he should be held accountable for any crimes that he's committed. My focus, and has been consistently before October 7th, is trying to be a force as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee to do everything that I can to bring justice.

[23:16] this enduring conflict to an end. He's got an election coming up this year, Antonyahu, and I hope the people of Israel not only vote him out, but then jail him because he obviously has crimes right now that he's being investigated for. But there's still a problem in that region, and we still need to bring it to a conclusion. And I will continue to try to be like I was there on October 7th, [23:41] I will continue to try to be someone who finds a way in every way possible, leveraging my position on the Foreign Relations Committee as a U.S. senator to end the suffering and the needless dying and really the injustice within that region. [23:56] Thank you. [23:57] I [23:58] I'm a Jewish person. I've struggled with how to talk about this, and I find that for me the way I prefer to then... [24:05] talk about it is just to lay out that struggle in a longer form in a podcast or sort of in conversation. But we live in a social media age and people are genuinely shocked and outraged by Israel's conduct of the war. And there's a lot of young people who didn't grow up with the kind of pro-Israel mindset with Israel as this democracy, as a beacon in a land of autocracies. They just have seen it as an aggressor. [24:33] And it's led to a real kind of sentiment in which Zionism itself as a term has become a slur. [24:39] Thank you. [24:40] And... [24:42] At the same time, I find that there are people that want to defend Israel and accuse people of anti-Semitism simply for being so outraged by Israel's conduct.

[24:52] of [24:52] the war and [24:54] Thank you. [24:56] I just wonder how, as someone, you talk about a lot of these intersecting values in the book. Like... [25:04] Have we lost the ability to really kind of [25:08] talk about this. [25:10] As a society in a way that's productive, because I see a lot of people talking past each other. But there is an Israel filled with millions of people there. There are Palestinians that deserve a right to self-determination, but we seem mired in, I think, sometimes language and anger about it. [25:28] That's really thoughtful analysis, and I think it's right spot on. And I think it's indicative of a larger problem where we see things in terms of. [25:38] Absolutes. [25:40] that don't give us any space to have conversation or some kind of constructive pathway out of the, [25:49] The hardened tribalism that exists not just in this region, but but in our politics here in America, where we're just yelling at each other and not giving any space whatsoever to find that common ground. The reality is. [26:05] crises like that and others around the planet right now. And I'm on the Foreign Relations Committee. I'm dealing with other hotspots on the globe. [26:15] if you cannot have dialogue, if you cannot imagine... [26:20] that the person who feels fundamentally different on this issue, that they still have some shared humanity.

[26:27] where maybe... [26:30] And I write about this recently. [26:33] in my book around the abject [26:37] outrage in the differences between Frederick Douglass and [26:42] Abraham Lincoln. [26:43] Abraham Lincoln wasn't an avowed abolitionist. [26:47] Frederick Douglass was. [26:49] And here were two men that had [26:51] very moral differences, deeply moral issues when Frederick Belges would fight. [26:58] the president because the president wasn't fighting for what was happening to captured African Americans. There was a much different treatment if you were captured by the Confederates and were black versus if you were a white soldier and the hardened differences. And yet they found ways to sit down, not to yell at each other, but to cobble together the kind of coalition needed to end the nightmare that they were in. And so, yeah, I, I, [27:26] I see when it comes to [27:29] Israel and the Palestinian people and their cause for justice in that region, I hear people often more concerned with being right. [27:40] and labels that are being used or [27:43] or use the same words I'm using, or you yourself are evil, as opposed to saying there is misery and suffering in that region. And perhaps we can find ways to work to end it.

[28:00] Most senators have staffs that are better than them. We were using the way we were trying to position ourselves as people that could have conversations with Palestinian leaders, conversations with Israeli leaders, because I said our moral urgency is to stop. [28:15] people dying. And we found ways that perhaps we would not have been able to to get sick Gazan children out because we could have communications with people in both sides of the conflict to get American doctors, many of them Muslim themselves in to help people. [28:32] And yet we would bump into walls of people who on both sides were infuriated and had certain litmus tests that on both sides of this issue that often would direct their ire towards me. And so I again, this is a generationally long conflict in the Middle East. My my biggest fears is the conflicts are growing here at home. And what I mean by that is. [29:00] is when I go into SCIFs, classified hearing briefings, [29:05] I see, and this is open information, [29:09] But I see our adversaries, [29:11] who have warehouses full of people. [29:14] who just go on to our social media and try to whip up the conflicts. [29:21] That we have between us, including this one. One of my friends was just showing me bot analysis of where the origins of these people who come in and try to throw matches on anything they can to get more hate and division, even in the Democratic Party. How can we make the Democratic Party members hate each other more as if we need to help? That's the point.

[29:43] The biggest threat to our nation, in my opinion, is not the threat matrix as I see in the different nations that are trying to undermine us. The biggest threat to our democracy, which was… [29:54] Shown in the time of the Civil War and the heroism of Douglas and Lincoln who found a working relationship, the biggest threats are inability to talk to each other, to find common ground, to work through our most difficult solutions. And sometimes, especially in in-group, forget the Republicans that attack, often the in-group sanctions are so bad, it debilitates even the Democratic Party from coming together around common views and beating the very people on the other side of the aisle who pose the greatest threats. [30:24] ask you about this and i'll i'm gonna say i i pre-regret being part of the discourse about this because i think it's talked about enough but based on what you're saying i do think it's a natural question which is uh through your office you said and it's just one person but it's part of a large group of i think people that have this point of view that you wouldn't say go on like hassan piker's stream because he's said some heinous and stupid shit in the past but to me like given you [30:54] to say you know what of course i'm going to go there because i want to represent this point of view in a place that doesn't normally hear it i want to talk about the ways in which i think some of the things he said are offensive the same way you might want to go confront somebody on fox news or you've met with you know talk to newt gingrich and he said crazy shit in the past too so like maybe part of the way out of this is for someone like you to to go to those spaces even if there have been things that are offensive to people yeah so first of all it's

[31:19] Somehow we're having a much more deeper and personal conversation than I thought, so I'm going to be very candid with you. Gotcha. In a very good way. I always want to talk to you about deep things. No, I appreciate that, and that's why I appreciate you, frankly. [31:34] Um, so here's the candor. I had no idea who this person was a few days ago. I really, I never heard their name. That's going around. I think. Yeah. And I still haven't heard. [31:43] him speak even. I haven't heard anything he's done. The man sitting over there is my comms director. It's almost as if [31:50] There's a bunch of focus on one random streamer, and it's not really the right way to have a big debate. Yeah. That's my point. Like, so my comms director said to me, oh, you're getting asked this question. Would you go on the show? And I'm like, well, who is this person? And all he did, the totality of this person he gave me. Right there, that guy. I don't want you to keep, he's not on camera, so I don't feel like I'm implicating him. The totality of what he did to me was show me four or five of the most outrageous things. And they're pretty outrageous. They are. I said, okay, well, whoa. Right. Let's give whatever you saw officially coming out of my office. So here's a couple of things. [32:20] And I have this experience. [32:21] I don't want to say daily. My wife experienced it last night in the airport as somebody was wanting to take a moment as I come off this very long flight and to scream at me. I always tell people, give me a Mother's Day card, please, because I get called you mother often. And it's from people on wings of both parties. It would really be a Father's Day card in that sense. But calling me a mother – [32:40] Well, you're not the mother. [32:42] Oh, you're right. I never thought about that analysis here. Any kind of card would do, I think. I appreciate that. All kinds of mothers have sex. If you think about it. I think that my wife wants to come back here often.

[32:55] Suddenly she likes you. [32:57] Um, my, my, my, my point is, is the first rule of mental, actually, this is not my first rule of mental health. I have a number of them, but I really want all your listeners to like, this is a very good rule for mental health. First and foremost, you do not have to attend. [33:13] every argument you're invited to. And pick and choose because sincerely, I meet with thousands [33:21] of people from town halls to round tables and the like. And I want to be very thoughtful about how I apply my energy. And so whether it was this extraordinary woman who brought me together a few weeks ago with Palestinian leaders from my state to have a direct, very candid conversation to meeting with Republicans in my state who are straight up think I have horns before we sit down. [33:51] sit down with people on the other side of the aisle or on the other side of [33:55] ideological bridges to try to remind them that we have common humanity. One of my favorite experiences in the Senate, and you'll appreciate this, was with Jim Inhofe. If you remember the man who brought a snowball, the senator who brought a snowball to the Senate floor, Bill Bradley gave me this advice. He gave me three things I should abide by if I'm going to be a

[34:25] paint? No, no. Sadly, he can't help my very average basketball abilities. But meet with every one of your Republican colleagues, go out to dinner with them, get to know them as human beings. And when I got down there, I went on this wild odyssey. But Inhofe, I couldn't get a meeting with, so I go into his office for Bible study. And there's a brand of Christianity I'm sure he abides by that is very different than the deep Christian faith, very different than the faith I [34:55] I [34:56] And so I go into his office and immediately my implicit biases are surprised because I did not expect to see this elder person. [35:04] White, right wing conservative on his altar is one of his main shelves. He had a picture of him in an affection embrace with the black girl. And I didn't call my my elder senators back then by their first names. I just said, Mr. Chairman, sir. [35:21] who dat and and he tells me this story about them adopting a a young child out of a very very difficult circumstance i was moved by it didn't expect it um months later i'm on the senate floor angry and pouting in the back because there's a big education bill going through that's being managed by uh a great tennessee republican uh uh who ran for president multiple times uh lamar [35:51] He he's no there's there's a delicate balance of often is in the Senate. No amendments. Let's just get this bill through. And I think my amendments important because the worst educational, some of the worst educational outcomes in our in our country are for kids that are homeless or kids that are in foster systems. And I wanted to do something to create what I thought was better assurances that they would get the educational services that they deserve. And.

[36:17] Long story short is I see Inhofe come in as I'm sitting in the balcony. I remember that story. And I walk down there and I say, sir, I know you have a particular concern for kids from disadvantaged circumstances. Can I tell you about my amendment? And would you would you co-sponsor it? I just went swung for the fences and he gave me the Senate version of no, which is I'll think about it. Let me talk to my staff. And I said, OK. And I walked back to my back row where I was sitting back then and still am. [36:47] right into the Dem section and walking right up to me. And he goes, Corey, we're in. And I go, what do you mean you're in? And he said, I'll co-sponsor your amendment. And then he walks off quickly. And I was sat there stunned. And then I look up and I see Chuck Grassley on the floor. And I went over to him and I made my case. And as soon as he saw that Inhofe was on, he said to me, not that I'll talk to my staff. He goes, I'm on it too. Long story short, as I went to Lamar after getting all of these people supporting it that you would not expect and look at him, [37:17] this will get on the bill. And it's the law of the land now. And that was the one that banned the trans athletes from swimming? No, it was not. No, I'm kidding. I'm sorry. It's not appropriate, Sean. No, look, if there's anything, as a guy who's now written two books, one called United, one called Stand. So together, Stand United. Oh, boy. All right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But when I was mayor of the city of Newark and I wanted to get shit done, [37:43] The way I would tell my staff is that uncommon coalitions create uncommon results. And the best practices.

[37:51] If everybody in your coalition agrees with you on everything, then your coalition is not big enough. And we right now. [37:59] have this ability to want to eviscerate others if they don't use the language we want them to use, if they don't agree with us on everything. And there is no way the most complicated problems in this country and in this world will be solved if you can't find ways of bringing people together to do the hard work of finding common ground and finding common cause, even if it's not everything. Can we move this forward? And the last example I'll give is [38:26] is just guns in America. [38:28] I'm not sure if there's been many senators who've been more affected by gun violence. Clearly, Mark Kelly is one. [38:37] But a guy who knows lots of people who've been murdered in Newark and people I cared about deeply, I feel a sense of urgency. And I wanted to solve problems, not simply moralize about them and... [38:53] found out that [38:54] Only one shooting in my city in all the years I was mayor was done by somebody who bought a gun legally. [38:59] - Thank you. [38:59] And I know AKs and other organizations, [39:02] Automatic weapons, which I have strong feelings on, but the handguns that flow into communities like mine. And then I find out through polling that most gun owners, most NRA members agree on universal background checks. [39:15] But yet we can't pass that legislation.

[39:27] Pod Save America is brought to you by Fast Growing Trees. Did you know Fast Growing Trees is America's largest and most trusted online nursery with thousands of trees and plants and over 2 million happy customers. They have all the plants your yard or home needs, including fruit trees, privacy trees, flowering trees, shrubs. [39:41] and houseplants, all grown with care and guaranteed to arrive healthy. Whatever you're looking for, fast-growing trees helps you find options that actually work for your climate, space, and lifestyle. Fast-growing trees makes it easy to get your dream yard. Just click, order, and grow. That's not a lot of our ads. [39:53] You click order and grow. It's true. All kinds of things. But this is about plants, quality plants you can count on. Plus, get ongoing support from trained plant experts who can help you plan your landscape, choose the right plants, and learn how to care for them every step of the way. I saw a video of somebody that does gonzo.com. [40:10] tree grafting and goes to trees in parks that have fruit you can eat and puts on branches for fruit you can eat. Oh, that's nice. That's cool. But that's not what this is about. It's about trees for your yard. We love fast growing trees. Our office is basically a Randy Forest Cafe in here. We lost somebody the other day towards the back of the office in the brush and they're [40:32] We had to go in there with a machete, get them out. It was crazy. Filming Jumanji over here. There was an uncontacted tribe. And then Kennedy was killed by the uncontacted tribe. That's how many plants we have here. I think we should bring them Christianity, but people in the office are saying no. They need to know. Right now. [40:52] Here's what you need to know. Great deals on spring planting! [40:55] Up to half off on select plans and listeners to our show get 20% off their first purchase when using the code CROOKET at checkout.

[41:00] That's an additional 20% off. [41:02] better plants, and better growing at fastgrowingtrees.com. Use the code CROOKED at checkout. [41:07] Tell the people in your neighborhood about the good news. Fastgrowingtrees.com, code crooked. Now's the perfect time to plant. Let's grow together. [41:14] Use Crooked to save today. Offer is valid for a limited time. Terms and conditions apply. [41:19] I never realized my skills could earn extra income until I joined Airtasker. Now I book tasks like setting up a home office or walking poodles. I name my price and get paid securely. Go to Airtasker.com or download the app. [41:32] Airtasker, get anything done. [42:02] along qualifying orders. [42:08] Do you think there's something about gun violence? Mass shootings galvanize people's attention. [42:15] but [42:16] The majority of people who are killed by guns are killed by... [42:19] First of all, they're dying by suicide. Yes. And they're being killed in sort of more like kind of quotidian mayhem that doesn't get as much attention. Or empathy. Which would also, I think, lead to challenging some of Democrats' own priors about the best way to kind of address gun violence, including around sort of, you know, mental health and a few other issues that aren't specifically related to gun violence.

[42:42] Do you think that we've attended to mass shootings as a culture more than we have to the actual sort of… [42:50] I think more common ways of dying by guns. Yeah, I think it's an absolutely a problem. Look, I'm proud of the bill that I got a chance to write some of the section. The first one in 30 years we got passed on guns that for me, the my part was the community violence intervention money and getting a lot of that into communities like mine in New Jersey that. [43:08] really helped to stop [43:09] the kind of violence we see in Camden and Newark and Patterson-Passaic, [43:16] I'm... I... [43:18] I know what captures people's attention and often it's frustrating to me. Like I just watched this documentary about Black Jewish relations and when Goodman, Cheney and Schwerner died. [43:30] I never knew this before until I saw the documentary, how... [43:33] ferociously noble the white wives were. [43:38] of the Jewish men that died with Cheney. [43:43] When they were dredging for their bodies and they were doing this massive search, they found black body after black body after black body that had been murdered and thrown into that river, but it never got national attention. And I remember one interview with this woman was that you would not be paying attention to this yet another black person being murdered unless there were white people being murdered as well. And so I will still remember in my life. [44:09] Uh, I think the, the most like broken, one of the most broken I've ever felt in my life was after a murder in my neighborhood. I tried in vain to stop this kid from bleeding to death and I was so shaken by it. I still don't even remember how I got home.

[44:23] But as I'm wiping these kids, I just lost my first mayoral race. It seemed like forever until I get a chance again. I felt like I failed so many people who believe that I could bring an end to this level of violence. [44:35] and [44:36] I had never felt this level of anger before as I sat there and tried to wipe this kid's blood off my hands. And my anger was at our own nation for this, um, [44:48] the obscenity of indifference towards the constant death. [44:52] of people in my that didn't even make the newspapers anymore. And so look, I, [44:57] I feel this frustration now globally and locally, like getting people to even mention Sudan on a podcast is seems almost impossible to talk about American weapons. They're being used in this in this in this humanitarian crisis. I feel that at home still that we still live in a nation. We joke now more than ever about marijuana, but there's still thousands of marijuana possession arrests in America, disproportionately black and brown people. [45:27] Thank you. [45:28] This this discord that are that are political politics and the issues we debate and don't don't truly keep centered the people who are really struggling while we debate in the unfinished business of America. And I feel like we're losing this. [45:46] we are actually losing what my parents' generation handed me. When my dad's generation, 95% did better. If you were going to be born poor on the planet Earth,

[45:56] Even poor and black like my father in a segregated town, this was the best country because it had the best social mobility in that generation. [46:05] Pell Grants covered the majority of the deal. [46:10] worked. And it was the deal still... [46:12] Remember, Democrats kept majorities... [46:15] through the Tip O'Neill years from FDR through Tip O'Neill, because most of America believed in the deal and believe the Democrats were fighting for them. [46:23] I'm going to go ahead and get a little bit. [46:24] And by the way, God bless my father's generation. They're now leaving the political stage. Last baby boomer president, last baby boomer heads of the Senate. [46:33] my generation and your generation, um, [46:39] We've seen the collapsing of the deal. [46:42] We've seen all that FDR sort of did now collapsing. You know this, I'm plant-based. [46:50] Our food system is now controlled by like four or five companies. Meatpacking, the famous book by Upton Sinclair, The Jungle, which exposed all the horrors of the meatpacking industry. [47:02] and created changes for a while, for a few decades, those were middle class jobs. [47:07] Now, [47:08] It's more corporately concentrated than it was back then. And the same kind of dangers are popping up. So I could keep going through. You are not the bargain. This is how bad the bargain is and how much other countries are out Americaning us. We're no longer the best country to be born poor. [47:26] classist England. It's better to be born there if your sole goal is to make it into out of the bottom quintile. Yeah, but then you're still English at the end of it. I guess my point is are politics...

[47:38] and the divides that define them, [47:41] are failing Americans. And if there's anything that's going to save... [47:46] not the Democratic Party, screw parties for a second. If there's anything that has saved the promise of America, it has got to be a renewal of that deal. [47:57] a redemption of that deal and a different kind of thinking, not just about our problems, but how we think about each other. And that's the urgency of this moment. We can argue ourselves to death. And meanwhile, this country and the people who are really getting screwed right now are going to continue to hurt unless we figure out a way to get ourselves out of this. And I would be wrong if I did not tell you, right? [48:22] One of the reasons why we're stuck is because of the outsized [48:28] poisonous influence. [48:30] of money in politics. And this is why I don't understand [48:33] what's happening right now in the Democratic Party. [48:37] People are talking about APAC. [48:39] But why aren't we talking about all PACs? [48:42] Why are we talking about [48:43] The fact that all of the money flowing into our politics right now is destructive and anti-democratic, especially because it's so few people who are fueling the billions of dollars. Remember, all the money spent on Donald Trump's campaign, 10 people spent 44 percent of it. But it's not just their problem. [49:02] We have a big money problem on our side as well. Ten years ago, I think it was about that, I was one of the first people in Congress to say no corporate PAC money. At the end of last year, I said enough.

[49:14] I don't want to start asking. I want to say no more. [49:18] issue area packs as well. I think that the fact that I can sit down, I'm on the ad committee and we have oversight of, of crypto, [49:29] And as I'm negotiating, because I think the crypto markets need structure. And so I'm at the good faith negotiations at the table with Barrasso and his team. And Veronica, another person that's here is off camera. She knows that this phone call that came in. But while we're negotiating the details of this bill, that industry puts together, I think it's $175 million pack where they're willing to drop 10, 20, 30, 40 million against people. [49:59] a call where somebody from that industry tried to apologize. What was the exact words? [50:06] Yeah, we don't want you to think this is a threat. We want you to know it is. Yeah. So in terms of addressing some of the deeper issues, you proposed the Keeping Your Pay Act, and I wanted to ask you about it because I think it's insane, and I want you to convince me why I'm wrong. No federal income tax on the first $75,000 of people's earnings. Sounds good. You'll pay for it by raising the corporate tax rate, top marginal rate, and closing the [50:29] loop. And other things. And other things. Stepped up basis. I can go through all those things. There's a few other pay-fors and a few other ways to increase child tax credit. A few other things. [50:38] Here's my question about it. If you believe the majority of Americans shouldn't be paying income tax. Shouldn't be paying income tax on their first $75,000 of household earnings. Which would mean the majority of Americans wouldn't pay income tax.

[50:50] Which means the majority of Americans would not pay income tax. Yes. Does that suggest [50:56] that right now people are not getting the value from their taxes that they ought to be getting. I want a more progressive income tax. I want a more progressive tax system. I want the rich to pay more. I want corporations to pay more. [51:10] Don't we want to live in a society where everyone says, you know what? No, nobody likes taxes. Everyone would like their taxes to be lower. But I benefit from the highways. I benefit from having the best military in the world. I benefit from having TSA. I benefit from what our government does for us. And I believe in government as a Democrat. And so therefore, we're all going to pay our share into the into the tax. So let me let me let me address it in a few ways. So first of all, I'm glad you kept saying income tax. [51:35] Because you and I pay a lot of federal taxes that are not income taxes. Payroll tax, there's gas tax, a lot of places pay taxes. And those are very regressive. Yeah. Yeah. [51:45] So understand poor people are paying a lot more. [51:49] than wealthy people when it comes to most federal taxes. That's the first point. So we're just now talking about income tax, but you're stipulating that we're all paying into the common kitty, even if we don't pay income tax. Well, and as of right now, the current standard deduction is around $30,000 for a family. But [52:08] Payroll taxes kick in in dollar one. So this is a tax cut that you're proposing for that, that doesn't hit people that are making the least. It actually... [52:16] hits people making more between, say, above 75%. No, because then you're ignoring the massive increase in the CTC and the EITC. So this cuts child poverty in half. This cuts the overall poverty rate, and I've seen different estimates by people who've run the numbers from 10% to greater. So this is a massive boost to the people that live in neighborhoods like the one I live in, where if you sit down with a woman, single mom, one young kid, makes $60,000 a year,

[52:46] that you did. I just wanted to let you know. [52:48] because I've done this in focus groups, sitting down, not focus groups, political focus groups, kitchen tables around the kitchen table and just asking real Americans, [52:56] what this would mean for their lives. And literally having people, when they do the little calculator on my website, start tearing up. [53:03] because they're treading water. [53:05] They're barely staying afloat. And $6,000 to them is a difference between them making their rent payment and keeping up with all these costs. So, [53:14] When I talk to intellectuals like us, I get one response. When I talk to Americans – Seeing as an intellectual behind me. All right. I don't mean to be – no, I'm not insulting. I have such respect for you. I'm just saying to you, when I sit down with real Americans – [53:25] who are really struggling right now. I've talked to families that make $100,000 a year and are not keeping up with the cost of their health care and child care. So I just want you to know that if you and I were to go out in the streets right now just with our little calculator and ask people, it would be wildly popular. So you're asking now the philosophical question of shouldn't people on their first $75,000 pay? And I will tell you this. [53:50] We, and I'm including us who are progressive people, we have tolerated in America, [53:56] The top tax level grifting off of the rest because they pay an effective tax rate lower than a teacher or a firefighter or the people that are soldiers who are fighting right now in Iran. So think about the absurdity of this. The tax avoidance that's built into our system. You stipulate that. So why have we been okay with – and you and I have not been –

[54:19] have not been, but we are not as outraged as often I'm getting about a tax plan that suddenly lets people enjoy what the wealthiest have enjoyed because they've built into the system. And let me tell you things that we defend. [54:30] I will defend the mortgage interest deduction. But did you know most of that tax expenditure is enjoyed by the top 20%? Well, this is the, I know, well, you'll defend the mortgage interest deduction because you'll have, you're from an expensive state like New Jersey where a lot of people benefit from. You defend the SALT. [54:45] deduction which is just a way of saying that people in rich states should pay for less of their local government and have it be subsidized from people from states that have less local government all of these are ways around so i agree people are really struggling health care costs are insane education costs are insane gas prices are really high there's not enough opportunity like incomes have been flat housing has become a massive crisis in so many places where the jobs are uh [55:08] Okay, those are the real problems. Yes. So you're looking you're basically saying and so we're going to zero out your taxes, which a lot of people would be a huge relief for them. But it doesn't address the underlying problem, which we've built an economy in which it's there that people are not making enough to get by. And so I'm telling you right now, because you are a good political thinker and strategist, I'm telling you right now. [55:27] You have the Senate, the Senate, [55:30] the house... [55:31] and the White House. [55:33] And you've got six months. [55:35] to redeem the Democratic Party [55:37] I say you need big, bold ideas that people feel right away. [55:43] And that makes sense to people. [55:46] And I'm going to try my best over the next coming months to be one of those people that starts putting out the big ideas, swinging for the fences that show we're creating a new deal in America.

[55:56] that we're creating something that could redeem the dream for America that you don't believe in anymore because half the country doesn't. [56:03] They're working harder than their parents and making less. [56:05] And so this of all the ideas, and again, we have a few more big ideas we're rolling out, but this is basic. [56:12] It's simple. I get it. And finally, working class people can keep more of their paycheck. You can tell me, Democratic Party, you want to nibble around the edges, but you're going to let my family – I'm one of those families making the low six figures. I got two kids, and you're going to tell me I can keep $10,000 more of my money? Well – [56:30] I'm telling you right now that goes so much farther than you trying to give me some alphabet soup things that the Democratic Party is going to try to do. My grandfather, who was a Republican, became a New Deal Democrat because of the big, bold ideas like Social Security that was going to actually – [56:49] End poverty, and we now know it hasn't because we haven't done the right thing by Social Security, but end poverty for a generation of elder people in our country. The Democratic Party needs big, bold ideas again, and this one is simple that everybody can understand. And if you don't, go on the website, put your earnings in, and see how much more money you have. And you still pay federal taxes, and you still – You pay your payroll taxes. You pay your Medicare taxes. You pay that. You pay that. [57:19] I get that. I agree, I'm sure it's popular to tell everybody that you're not going to pay taxes anymore. I think that you're right. I don't know how big of an idea is. You're just raising the standard deduction.

[57:34] You are paying federal taxes. Well, this is what I would say. You're not paying taxes anymore. So I think it's definitely a bold idea to raise the standard deduction to $70,000, but you're leaving in place, say, like the payroll system that comes off of people's first dollar, right? Right, which we should change. You and I both know. We should – the higher, higher income earners who pay a much lower percentage of their income, we should be affecting that as well if we're going to make Social Security more solvent and there. [58:04] Thank you. [58:04] increase social security for people who live off of their social security checks like a lot of people do and live in poverty. I'm still a progressive that believes we need to have a common sense tax system that actually benefits working people in America. I am telling you, if you and I, and you've seen this data, looking at working people in America, most of them feel like they're being screwed, that the deal isn't working, and that they are seeing more and more of their paycheck go out and less of the resources they need to make sure their family can eat and [58:34] for prescription drugs and do more. [58:45] This show is brought to you by AG1. [58:48] Spring feels like a natural reset. The weather begins to warm, the days get longer, and there's new momentum in the air. It's the perfect time to turn that energy into a simple daily habit you can stick with, like starting each day with AG1. The superfoods and B vitamins in AG1 provide nutritional support to help you maintain steady energy levels. It's a simple way to complement your daily routine as you stay active through the spring. Help your body stay at its best with daily immune support. AG1 is formulated with antioxidants, probiotics, and functional mushrooms to help

[59:18] a foundation for overall wellness. AG1 includes ingredients designed to support efficient digestion and nutrient absorption in every scoop. AG1 delivers vitamins, minerals, and antioxidants that help support a balanced mood and a healthy nervous system. I use AG1 every day. I'm a smoothie guy in the morning. It fits perfectly into the smoothie no matter what else you put in it, banana, Greek yogurt, a little protein powder, whatever you want. Get your vitamins in the morning. It honestly is great because sometimes I put in some spinach or some greens, but if I don't, [59:48] and it tastes good, and it's easy to do, and there's no mess, and I just, I really like it. Visit drinkag1.com slash crooked to get an AG1 flavor sampler and a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 free in your welcome kit in your first AG1 subscription. That's a $72 value. That's drinkag1.com slash crooked. [1:00:08] I never realized how many of my skills could earn extra income until I joined Airtasker. Last week, I helped a new mom set up her home office. Yesterday, I decorated a family's backyard for a birthday party. Tomorrow, walking a neighbor's five poodles. Yeah, five. With Airtasker, you choose the tasks you want to do, name your price, and get paid securely through the platform. It's flexible, rewarding, and a great way to make life work on your terms. Download the Airtasker app or go to Airtasker.com. [1:00:38] you [1:00:40] Before we get back to my conversation with Senator Booker, become a friend of the pod. Go to crooked.com slash friends and sign up to become a subscriber. It helps build this pro-democracy independent media company. You get ad-free episodes. You get

[1:00:54] episodes that are just for subscribers like Pod Save America Only Friends and Polar Coaster, where Dan breaks down the latest polls in a really helpful way. You also can become part of the community online in the Discord. You can subscribe wherever you get your content. We're all over the place, but go to crooked.com slash friends and sign up. It is the best way you can support what we're doing here. Thank you. It's also something that's good for you. It's good. You were doing it for you too. So sign up crooked.com slash friends. Now back to Senator Corey Booker. [1:01:24] . [1:01:25] Well, more and more people's paychecks are going towards the daily cost of living, not to the government. We just passed Trump's big, beautiful bill did increase the child tax credit, right? [1:01:36] Yeah, but a little bit. I'm just, I'm going to be, I'm, I'm getting out of the rhetoric and into the facts. Yeah. Thank you. And to me, okay. Uh, [1:01:42] I want to have a simple progressive tax code and a government that works and functions and delivers value for people. Yes. Right. Yes. And I don't see how creating a five trillion dollar hole that you're going to. No. Can I challenge you? I want to challenge you on this. Challenge me. You are comfortable. [1:01:59] With the richest of the richest getting because the state calls a $5 trillion hole is not is not fair. Not fair to who? Because it's not a $5 trillion hole if you're paying it by unrigging the tax system. My understanding is that if you even if you raise the top rates, even if you close the carried interest loophole, I am for every progressive. I'm for every pay for you having this. I want to do every pay for you having this. Yes. [1:02:22] But if I were saying, all right, I've got a few trillion dollars that I'm going to try to give to people in tax relief.

[1:02:28] The income tax, because of the standard deduction, [1:02:31] It's not going to the people that are paying the payroll tax. There's a lot of people that make very little money that will not benefit very much from this bill. Yes. No, you're wrong. If you're expanding the CTC and if you're expanding the EITC, I'm sorry to talk to acronyms to your audience, but- The earned income tax credit and the child tax credit. Yes. If you're expanding those significantly, you're going to make sure that, and by the way, we expand it to teenagers who work who don't get the EITC and to our elders at work and don't get the EITC. [1:03:01] part-time earnings, you are going to benefit now from the EITC. So trust me, [1:03:08] We designed this so that we are cutting poverty in America and making work pay. And why is that person, that working class person who makes a nurse and a cop, who make $100,000 a year, why do we say they're making too much money? They're struggling right now. I don't think they're making too much money. Right. And so this is not that they're making too much money, but that we shouldn't be looking to benefit people across the income scale. And so what I'm simply saying is that, [1:03:37] It doesn't cost anything if you are taking away all of these tax avoidance schemes of the largest corporations and you use it to fund this. Then it costs nothing. It's just stopping the people at the top. [1:03:50] who have been benefiting from a rigged system and finally letting the people in our country who are working have the benefits of this democracy. Because right now, all the benefits are accruing to the wealthiest who are seeing compound gains like they've never seen before. When are working people in America going to get their fair deal? And so and you think the only the way to get to a fair deal?

[1:04:11] is people pay payroll tax, [1:04:14] but they pay no income tax. So the payroll tax is four things for social security. It's for Medicare. I'm done. Like, I'm just trying to understand it. I'm speaking with you. They pay for social security, Medicare, but the jet, but the money you pay in income taxes is for everything else that the government does. And you're saying that people that make under a certain amount of money just should be, don't, don't, [1:04:31] aren't receiving enough benefits from that value. And so what I'm asking is a guy who would defend the standard deduction we have right now, [1:04:37] Maybe you want to raise it to 55. Maybe you want to raise it to 65. Why are you okay with a large percentage of Americans that don't pay, very large percentage of Americans don't pay federal income taxes now either? And so if you're comfortable with that, why aren't you comfortable with moving it up a little bit more and giving relief to those people as well? [1:04:57] I guess my view of it is that I actually am not uncomfortable with doing that. I worry that what we're signaling is we have lost the ability to make an argument that government provides a basic good that we all share and that collectively we all pay into this income tax and we hate it and it stinks. But we're building an economy in which people have opportunities and we are going to be so careful with your money because it's everyone's money that we're going to have a government that works for people. [1:05:27] And I'll add one more thing, which is, [1:05:29] A system in which people are paying income tax, payroll tax, paying into all these different buckets in which people that make under 40K pay a higher percentage of their taxes than people making a billion dollars is a stupid system. The answer is to just zero out the income tax, which doesn't hit the people paying payroll tax on their first dollar, but build a better system from the ground up in which we can look at it and say in a graduated way, this is a progressive income tax system that is fair across the board. But my friend, why are you the tyranny of the ore?

[1:05:57] I am the liberation of the and. I believe in government. I'm a former mayor. When we made shit work in Newark, when we went from filling potholes from months to literally hours, when we made people who paid their parking ticket not to come to City Hall and wait on long lines, when we made somebody who wants to put an addition on their house so they can rent it out, I love making things work. We have a government. I'm sorry. Donald Trump has his knack for pointing out the right problems. [1:06:27] but coming up with disastrous solutions. Do you want to talk about the need for a more efficient, more effective government that lowers the friction points for Americans that make them frustrated? Hell, just paying taxes in America is a testimony to corporate corruption because there's a handful of corporations. Every time you want to make it easier, they come in because these tax fines are tax. So what I'm saying to you is, [1:06:51] This is one idea of a suite of ideas that the Democratic Party, I believe, needs to get on board of. And yes, one of them is redeeming government. This idea of the Reagan era, government bad. No, bad government is bad. Stupid government bad. [1:07:21] our country that they can have affordable childcare. These are things I passionately believe in. And I'm telling you, we got to think bigger that we can do this, give taxpayers in the country a break, let them have what the richest of the richest had for a little while and still find ways to do the other things. There was this, again, in my book, this wonderful woman named Marissa Broger, who's my speech writer, who came to help me on this book. She finds this quote one

[1:07:51] who says, are we a nation? [1:07:54] Or have we a government? [1:07:56] Thank you. [1:07:57] It gave me chills. [1:07:59] Because less and less we're thinking we're a nation where we do have common cause. And we're looking at government is just, hey, I have no loyalty to this thing, government. I think government is bad. And the right has so demonized this idea that – [1:08:13] I'm sorry, public schools are one of the greatest inventions in democracy. That's government. Having roads and bridges that actually work and are efficient and effective that can fuel commerce, that's government. Hell, keeping me safe every day from toxins and chemicals in my food, that's government. And we should celebrate that. But it's hard to do that unless the first part of this conversation we were having is we get back to seeing that we have something in common as a nation, that we are people that have an obligation. [1:08:43] that our very founders, as imperfect as they were, said that we have to pledge to each other [1:08:48] Our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor. Well, we know the sacred honor is going because we hate each other. We know the fortune's going. [1:08:55] Because we have people that live this life as I can collect as much dollars as possible. So my bank account is big as possible before I die. And then, hell, I'm not paying taxes on that. I'm just going to give it to my people. So I guess I just don't understand. Isn't that all an argument for saying, hey, if we're going to have a country together, [1:09:12] If Democrats are going to say to people, the only fair income tax rate for you is zero. No, that I'm just I'm listening to what you're saying. I'm following the logic of it. I want I like I think we should have a single payer health care system. That's going to require everybody paying into taxes instead of paying insurance. We to me, the question is, are people getting value out of their tax? Yes. And right. And you would say no. And I'm saying, no, no, I would not say no. I look, I will do this again. And I've done it before. I always tell people when I was running for mayor in Newark, if you vote for me, I'm going

[1:09:42] more from you than any elected leader has ever asked from you, because there's no way we're going to turn around Newark. There's no way we're going to do impossible things unless everybody's pitching in. And I hate it. [1:09:55] I hate that George Bush... [1:09:57] When we for the first time ever in American history, he took our country to war and said, I'm giving you a tax break. [1:10:03] It was the first time we didn't collectively invest in our national effort, which you and I would disagree that it was an unworthy war. But I hate that. I hate that we don't feel like we're all in on making America work. The minor difference we're having right now is where the standard deduction should be right where it is or to give relief to people, to a generation of folks who. [1:10:28] Millennials do not believe they can pay rent. And so what I'm simply saying is give more people the same break for the last 40 years that we've given the wealthiest of the wealthy. Give them a chance to invest in savings. Hey, there's this 529 vehicle that's bullshit, too, in the sense that I believe in 529s, but they're overwhelmingly used. When I asked this family groups around the table, anybody have any money to invest? And nobody did. [1:10:58] can't we just say to the next generations as the baby boomers start to leave the stage, you know what, millennials, we're going to let you keep more of your money. You're still going to have obligations. This is still a nation. This is a country. In fact, we demand more patriotism, not your flag pin, not your song. What real patriotism is, is a quiet devotion to this country. And you show that by your devotion to your fellow woman and man by your neighbor. That's we need to revive that sense of patriotism where we are all in and where that standard

[1:11:28] Right now, the tax code is written for the wealthiest. Let the Democratic Party say, you know what? We're going to give you a break, finally. We're going to create a new deal with a rigged tax code. It's not rigged anymore for the wealthy. It's fair for you. And we're going to do that by letting you keep more of your money. It doesn't mean that we're not going to ask you to pay any taxes. When you buy a beer, this is not a beer, but it looks like one from far away, we're going to have taxes on that. Hell. Regressive sales taxes. Yeah, my staff hates this example. [1:11:58] want to and tax the shit out of it so that we can create more revenue now my weed's getting taxed with alcohol i'm sorry about taxing your weed man i think it's fine but but my point is we are a nation of abundance not that much we are much of great wealth i won't feel it why are we thinking so narrowly you're killing here what we're what we have so much wealth but yet we have so many poor struggling people yes because the economy is fucked up and broken yes we have massive structural problems yes and your answer is to say the taxes are bad and i'm saying fix the problem [1:12:28] Why are you telling me that's my singular answer? We must come together and share in our shared obligations, our blood, our fortune, our treasure. But if you're any income tax over zero for the majority of Americans is unfair. You're mischaracterizing again. And I love you. And I think it's a singular idea. It has to be. And you're not saying it's temporary before we fix things. You're not saying it's you're saying the new tax code will have these numbers in it.

[1:12:58] have two anti-tax parties because i worry about living in a society in which we don't allow conversations about trade-offs we don't allow conversations about nuance and all of a sudden we've got one party that's against taxes for the rich one party that's against taxes for the middle class and then what happens right and it's fun to be against taxes everybody fucking hates taxes i hate taxes i again i'm in favor of your proposal i am not i love what you've called for as i think [1:13:28] my brother. No. Okay. I am not. I'm an anti-working class people being screwed. Well, that's a fun way to say it. Stop in the name of love. How could you tell me if I'm sitting here talking about all those other taxes we just talked about that people are going to have to pay? Why can't for the working class people, I am not anti-tax. I am pro-working people keeping more of their money. And yeah, when you raise the standard deduction, there'll be some people that [1:13:58] complaining about that. Why not give a little more relief to people who feel like the deal isn't made? And now I'm going to tell you something exciting. [1:14:06] If we had five big ideas that we ran on as a party, [1:14:10] And then got into office. [1:14:13] And I love President Biden. I partnered with him on the CHIPS Act and the infrastructure bill. But people in my neighborhood... [1:14:22] Did not see those changes and didn't feel like it changed for them. Five big ideas. [1:14:27] that we in the first three months do, and everybody feels a real change in their lives. It's not just having more money in their pocket. It's like suddenly seeing billionaires not have influence on our politics because we banned the PACs that I've given up. We say nobody can take that. Everybody has got to have the same standard I put forward, and I'm living on myself. No issue area PACs, no whatever. We kill Citizens United, and that's the worst decision. Maybe that's another one of our bold ideas. We make everybody, from a president who won't be able to have crypto coins,

[1:14:57] and the highest court in the land won't have the lowest ethics laws like they do right now, where billionaires take them out on these fancy hunting trips and give them mobile homes. Wow, this Democratic Party made a change in my life immediately, my family's life immediately, so we can actually pay our rent and have quality childcare. And now they're showing us that finally, [1:15:21] It's not going to be the moneyed interest that I'm fighting against every single day that are corrupting our politics, that are allowing corporate concentration and more. But wait a minute. [1:15:29] They banned all that as well. What are you guys going to do for the third act? [1:15:34] Imagine if we did big ideas like that right away and then turn to the country and say, we still have some problems to solve. [1:15:40] Like gun violence. [1:15:42] We still have some problems to solve, like health care. And some of these things we may have to pay for. And why we have an economy. And why we have it. Now you've got deposits in the emotional bank account of a nation that has nothing left to give. How to increase worker leverage. How to build more housing. How to build high-speed rail. How to make an economy in which people have opportunity, even if they are paying taxes. And here's the big thing I really want to tell you. You pull off those first three or four things in. [1:16:08] you're not only going to win back the loyalty of people that are tired of voting for Democrats and seeing nothing happen. You're going to start seeing people on the other side of the aisle. [1:16:17] Say, wait a minute. [1:16:19] You're now explaining to me how workers get screwed with things like non-compete clauses and labor laws. And I actually get you. I'm a factory worker that's voted Republican the last 20 years. And this guy's making sense. And I'm listening to him now because my life has gotten materially better.

[1:16:37] What I want for the Democratic Party is no more damn elections where one person gets 49.7 and the other person gets 49.3. We need a wave election. We need a generational renewal. We need people to begin to believe again that they have people in office. And it's not you don't get that through talk. When I won in the city of Newark as a guy who had barely lived there. [1:16:59] Back in 1998, I knew people, their vote for me wasn't that we believe in you. It's we're going to give you a shot to deliver for us. And when we get that shot, if we should get that shot again and have the trifactor, we better deliver and deliver big and bold like FDR did with our version and our generation of the New Deal. All right. [1:17:19] All right. Fine. We'll do it. Okay. Center Cory Booker. Thank you so much. This was so much better than I thought it was going to be. Wow. Because you didn't hold back and I appreciate you. [1:17:30] If I've heard it once, I've heard it a thousand times. [1:17:32] Senator Booker. The book is Stand. [1:17:35] 25 hours. [1:17:36] Ian Hooker Vance. [1:17:37] I did not. We're circling the toilet now. You've got to get him out of here. You've got places to be. Thank you. I know. Honestly, thank you. It was a really good visit. Thank you to Senator Cory Booker for joining us. I'm glad we got to do that. It was a great freewheeling conversation. I appreciate that he was willing to give us the time, and I appreciate you for listening. We will be back in your feeds with John, Tommy, and me with a new episode of Pod Save America on Tuesday.

[1:18:08] Attorney General next. [1:18:21] Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Cricket. Pod Save America is a Cricket Media production. [1:18:28] Our producer is Saul Rubin. [1:18:30] Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reid Cherlin is our executive editor. [1:18:36] Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, Carol Pellaviv, David Tolles, and Ryan Young. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. [1:19:05] *music* [1:19:09] Thank you. [1:19:10] Air Tasker handles your never-ending to-do list. Pick up the cat, get nails done, yard work, taxes. Local Taskers can do all that. Visit airtasker.com or download the app. Air Tasker. Get anything done.